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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:49 am 
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Frankly a lot of more important Canon chars should go in your mod and others be dumped. I never understood some of the Rebellion char choices at times.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:00 am 
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That sounds like EaW....

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:09 pm 
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There is much awesomeness in this thread. My friend and I started on a design.doc for Rebellion 2 sometime in 2000. I'm going to paraphrase, as a lot of it echoes much of what's already been posted.

So here we go...

THE MAP
•Zoomable, "steerable" galaxy map, with regional borders (Deep Core, Expansion Region, Corporate Sector, etc.), much like the map shown in the Ultimate Visual Guide, or the forthcoming atlas.
•Sectors are amorphous and variably-sized, using movies and novels as inspiration.
•Hovering the mouse pointer over a sector highlights it and brings up some sort of sector status summary box.
•Catastrophic events cause the sector they happen in to flash for attention.
•Once soomed in to a sector, the system's suns are labelled. The Rebellion system of affiliation and degree of foment works great for instant intuitive sit-rep.
•Zooming into a system (I have ideas for the graphics this would involve, will post later if asked) gets similarly-labelled planets, disposition of ship activity, and so forth.
•Open battles on (or under) a planet's surface would work best if able to port in the Battlefront engine and models. Playing out campaigns in this way would extend gameplay for those who like long, epic gameplay.

CHARACTERS
•More characters, for both sides, plus unaffiliated. With top-notch art and animated interaction.
•Ability to "piggyback" after assigning to a mission, to take over direct control and leave again as desired.
•"Conference room" setting for assigning to missions -- Death Star, Home One, Massassi Briefing Room, etc. Available characters will be present. Those on missions won't be.
•Rebels recruit. Empire doesn't. :)
•Characters can be attached to ground or space battles (as appropriate) to augment the abilities of those present. This is also more direct than abstract.

MANAGEMENT
•Once your faction gains control of a planet/system/sector, its resources come in automatically, modified by opposing action (rebellion, interdiction, pirates, etc.).
•Trade, on all scales, is good for the economy and for morale. Although the Empire will start with control of more systems, the Rebellion will affect trade, and thus the galactic economy and morale. The Empire player will be playing to prevent this, and the Rebel player will be playing to magnify this.
•Taking a cue from dating sims will give good models for active diplomacy, negotiating with crime lords, and using Imperial fear tactics.
•Timeline is important. If gameplay starts right at the outbreak of the Clone Wars, there is already a strong division in politics and loyalties. The evolution of events and development of ships nad technology would proceed nicely from there.

GAMEPLAY
•Something dynamic and slewable for the galactic, sector, and system maps would be perfect. In my head, a bit like the Stellar Cartography room in Star Trek: Generations.
•The Homeworld engine would be awesome for large-scale space battles.
•The Battlefront engine would be great for ground battles.
•Any way to combine the zoomability and scope of Homeworld with the direct control of X-Wing: Alliance, say? Ability to climb in the cockpit of a fighter, freighter, or other minor vessel at whim?
•Tech develops automatically in the background. Jedi starfighters evolve, V-Wings get introduced, Venators are supplemented and then succeeded by Victorys, Imperials, and so forth. But the player determines when and how many get built.
•Better starfighter labelling, too. The Rebellion has colour designations for their squadrons (Gold, Red, Blue, Green, Grey...), whilst the Empire has more monochrome/nasty/military names (Black, Obsidian, 181st, Emperor's Shield, etc...).

There's a lot more, but those are the broad strokes. It would be programming intensive, but basing the gameplay off of established engines would help a bit. THe trick would be getting them to flow one into another smoothly. Blu-Ray DVD-ROM would pretty much be a necessary format. But I think the ability to change your perspective from the entire galaxy all the way down to a single Stormtrooper is key. As well as unalterable events, like Palpatine declaring himself Emperor and issuing Order 66 or the Yuuzhong Vong invasion. For things like Order 66, a random-number subroutine to determine if any Jedi survive, and which ones, and where they hide -- maybe stumble across them later in the game, maybe not, maybe source of missions ("Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope...").

One thing I loved about the first game was the ability to name your ships. I had all my Star Destroyers, Interdictors, and all twenty SSDs named after ships from the movies, books, and games. It was lovely. And I named my Death Star "Harmless Ore-Processing Station". But I think the AI should have more in its databanks for auto-assigning names than "Star Detroyer 15".

I would also like to have something in the game for matching commanders to their ships. Maybe automatically, maybe not. Maybe a bonus to commander and/or ship when you do it manually... Not clearly thought out yet, but the germ of the idea is there.

I'll let y'all pick apart what I've posted so far. :)

--Jonah


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:21 am 
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A mix of EAW and Rebellion would best in my opinion.
If you see how great EAW turned out when Ultimate Empire At War or some other mods are applied to it. The game could have been so much more. However change the galaxy map to turn by turn and expand on the techrace, building, char-actions and diplomacy. -> Expanded upon Rebellion. Now that would be the best of 2 worlds.
Actionwise, graphicwise i loved EAW, the cinematic mode was great fun.
Rebellion on the other hand had macrolevel options all worked out. And off course a far bigger galaxy map. (though more and more mods are adding planets)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:27 am 
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Peregrinus wrote:
Blu-Ray DVD-ROM would pretty much be a necessary format.


You gotta be kidding me, right?

I also made a mention somewhere on this forum (in the form of thread I guess) that am working on an engine (game framework) for a Rebellion 2, if you're interested.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:59 pm 
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Why kidding about the Blu-Ray DVD part? This is gonna have a lot of data to cram onto distribution media. I hate games that are spread over multiple discs. Data density is our friend. :)

--Jonah


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:15 pm 
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But Blue ray?

That is a hell of a lot of data. Unless you are working on it with a large game company with a team of developers, it wil take you the rest of your natural life to fill even a DVD.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:19 pm 
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Also, do you plan on recording the entire history of Star Wars into one game? I know there is want for massive expansion in Rebellion 2, but like JeZuS said, that is a lot of data!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:43 pm 
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By comparison... When Riven (the sequel to Myst) first came out it was on five CD-ROMs. I later got a Myst 10th anniversary collection with the first three Myst games on a single DVD-ROM each. Rebellion was on a single CD-ROM. Galaxies (for example) has been on many, between the original game and all the expansions.

If we did a direct sequel to Rebellion that was expanded to a more accurate scope, it would probably be on more than one disc. Add engines for expanded ship and ground combat, an expanded roster of characters and ships, padded with enough extra data to allow for 3D models and animation of same... Well, it might all fit on a single regular DVD-ROM.

I'm not looking to put the entire history of the Star Wars univers into a single game, but there's a lot of unseen background data needed to make a large-scope game like Rebellion II ought to be smooth and fun. :)

--Jonah


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:07 am 
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Most of the game's data these days isn't text - its high-end graphical models and sounds. Unless you want super-detailed models to really tax off the video card, I doubt you would need such data storage.

Of course I am speaking of today. What we'll see from games in the next 5 years, who knows. I have no doubt that Blu-ray or HD-DVD will be necessary for some games.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:36 am 
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Besides, strategy games need the least amount od raw data compared to the other game genres (maybe with the exception of puzzle games :)). Players don't require the same level of detail as FPSs have when they're commanding their SSD armada. Imho most of the space on the dvd is stuffed with FMV cutscenes for the game's single-player campaigns anyway (and I somehow doubt you could use SW footage for this, unless you're GL in disguise of course :wink: )

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 Post subject: Re: What are people's 5 ESSENTIAL wants for Reb2?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:02 am 
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Well technically you could do a high render scene pass using the models and it would look amazing. and if you bought the movie soundtracks you could possibly use them as music to the scene.

I would love to do a full intro and some FMV's for the game

Duel of the Fates intro anyone???


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 Post subject: Re: What are people's 5 ESSENTIAL wants for Reb2?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:22 am 
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I would love to see planetary attacks last longer than one day. Would give you time to send reinforcements from nearby bases/fleets. Maybe in a way like an ongoing process with checkbox for a fleet.

Freighters! Build fleets with freighters and escorts and set them to something like "auto trade".
I imagine this like the following. Set up a Fleet which remembers the start planet on which it buys resources and gains resources on arriving on an allied/neutral world relative to distance.
Making them imobile for X days while unloading will give enemies a chance to strike at them.
This should work AI controlled to not consume to much time for the player.
This would give the rebels a chance to cripple Imperial economy as they can ambush or capture these ships. May be convenient to add Shuttle/ATR "fighter" squadrons for taking over ships without risking own capships.

Empty sectors.
Sectors without planets from which to attack nearby sectors with fighters. Also, this could be used to construct platforms/spyprobes to detect fleets in nearby sectors/minefields within them.

Make ships have maximum range per hyperspace jump. So you will need platforms/bases to reach further into enemy territory.

As stated by others, I support the idea of having neutral fleets with older ships and fighters, like the good old z-95. Having an aggressive Empire, these forces could join the Rebels on withdrawing from battle and help form up the Alliance early in the game.


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 Post subject: Re: What are people's 5 ESSENTIAL wants for Reb2?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:59 am 
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Stylization

Rebellion holds a unique status in the Star Wars gaming catalog, it is the only title that plays out from an alternative history starting point and the outcome of the game is controlled entirely by the player. The game starts after A New Hope but includes technologies and characters from the latter episodes and expanded universe but most importantly, isolated from the influence of the prequels. It's this simplistic and wholesome positioning of the franchise rooted firmly in the post A New Hope universe that our story begins, can be controlled by our actions, and the fate of the Star Wars universe lies in our hands. Yes, there are a few scripted actions like Luke going to Dagobah, or Solo being captured by bounty hunters, but we never have to endure Hoth, Cloud City, or Ewoks. Lando Calrissian has a clean reputation to build on, Boba Fett doesn't die pathetically in the mouth of the Sarlec, and his boss Jabba is still around. Rebellion II should embrace this ANH centric glimpse of the Star Wars universe and such be a reboot of Rebellion I and not a proper sequel.

George Orwell's 1984
Terry Gilliam's Brazil
Alan Moore's Watchmen
... does Rebellion/Rebellion II have a place amongst great alternative history, technologically challenged dystopias?

Budious' Wants
I want the Tie Fighter game engine in the tactical mode so I can play strategy up to the battle, then switch over to the joystick and lead the attack!

Also, I want no hard coded blocks on pairing Luke and Leia on romantic getaway missions to luscious jungle moons.

Missions to Tattooine by Han Solo result in his capture by Jabba. Only Luke can lead a successful rescue mission.

Greedo is NOT in the game, Han shot first, and KILLED him in ANH (proper). In fact, bar all references to continuity to prequels and special editions, and ESB and RotJ. The original game's timeline is directly after ANHs conclusion. Rebellion II should be a remake or reboot rather than a proper sequel, else we killed Vader and Emperor and captured Coruscant already, or else the Alliance lost... duh.

Scrap the whole research mission, it's tedious and unnecessary constraint. Use proper tech leveling at various intervals, stages in game transition if you must. Recruitment missions are also tedious and unnecessary (imo), make all A-list characters available at start, then set a base rate for each side to acquire B-list characters which can be influenced by rate of expansion, but capped to a reasonable number. B-list characters can be randomly generated and replace killed characters.

Focus more on espionage, abduction, assassination, sabotage, incite uprising, diplomacy missions and greater character diversity. Random name and character generator to replace those B-list characters that killed in action inevitable, A-list characters of course don't die.

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My old Rebellion site (very web 1.0) - Bud's Korner and Rebellion Strategy


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