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salusha98
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Redoing the fighter balance should be good. I would like to see more use for TF/TI etc, but cost-effectiveness they don't come close to the better fighters so no use in taking them at the moment. But it has to be done carefully not to devaluate the advanced fighters too.

 

Besides that, I agree with what Kob says about the time fights take.

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well 4 kwings remain in the fight and offically have been the longest lasting small craft ive sent into combat. I wouldn't mind knowing the final death tally on all sides after this. 296 Claw craft, 3 Neb B's, and soon enough 27 K wing's lost. Oh btw the Kwing's decided to be big meanies to a YT2000 earlyer for some reason :P
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I've been away since last night, so I have no idea (yet) what my units have killed in that period of time. My losses, however, amount to 69 TDs.

 

EDIT: Woah, I just read the report for the 15 turns or so I missed... what a bloodbath!!!

Edited by Kobra_warlords
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Incoming spam re. losses which I detected:

Destroyed Ships:
EWING Lakonia Three
KWING Flying Fortress  15
EWING Achilles Twelve
TD Sigma 10
KWING Flying Fortress  17
TD Gamma 11
TD Gamma 5
NFRG Onto Glory
AWING Osprey Four
KWING Flying Fortress  14
KWING Flying Fortress  9
EWING Lakonia Four
KWING Flying Fortress  18
TD Sigma 6
EWING Lakonia Eleven
TD Gamma 9
TD Alpha 22
EWING Lakonia Leader
KWING Flying Fortress  7
AWING Osprey Two
TD Delta 15
AWING New AWING
TD Gamma Leader
KWING New KWING
AWING New AWING
NFRG Freelife
AWING New AWING
KWING Flying Fortress  13
AWING New AWING
EWING Achilles Three
AWING New AWING
EWING Achilles Eight
AWING New AWING
KWING Flying Fortress  12
AWING New AWING
TD Alpha 3
AWING New AWING
KWING Flying Fortress  1
AWING New AWING
EWING Lakonia Seven
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
XJWING Phalanx Leader
KWING New KWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
TD Sigma 4
KWING New KWING
AWING New AWING
KWING Flying Fortress  10
KWING Flying Fortress  5
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
TD Alpha 6
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
TD Alpha 11
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
TD Kappa 11
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
TD Sigma 11
AWING New AWING
NFRG Insight
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
AWING New AWING
KWING Flying Fortress  3
KWING New KWING
EWING Lakonia Ten
TD Alpha Leader
KWING Flying Fortress  11
KWING New KWING
AWING New AWING
TD Sigma 18
AWING Osprey Five
KWING New KWING
AWING New AWING
KWING New KWING
TD Beta 2
TD Alpha 14
EWING Achilles Leader
TD Gamma 14
KWING Flying Fortress  8
TD Gamma 17
EWING Achilles Eleven
KWING Flying Fortress  2
TD Beta 6
TD Delta 23
TD Gamma 19
KWING Flying Fortress  6
KWING New KWING
EWING Achilles Seven
TD Delta 13
KWING New KWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
KWING Flying Fortress  4
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
TD Delta 11
BWING New BWING
TD Sigma 2
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
XJWING Phalanx Nine
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
TD Alpha 9
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
TD Kappa 23
TD Sigma 3
TD Gamma 7
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
XG1 Gamma 5
BWING New BWING
XG1 Gamma 4
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
XG1 Gamma 8
BWING New BWING
XG1 Gamma 7
XG1 Gamma 2
BWING New BWING
XG1 Gamma 6
BWING New BWING
XG1 Gamma 11
XG1 Gamma 3
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
XG1 Gamma 14
XG1 Gamma 10
XG1 Gamma 1
BWING New BWING
XG1 Gamma 13
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
BWING New BWING
XG1 Gamma 9

Jumped Ships:
TD Gamma 19
TD Sigma 1
TD Kappa 20
TD Kappa 9
TD Gamma 7
TD Gamma 12
TD Kappa 22
TD Gamma 16
TD Kappa 14
TD Sigma 14
TD Gamma 9
TD Kappa 12
TD Gamma 20
TD Sigma 4
TD Kappa 23
TD Kappa 4
TD Gamma 15
TD Kappa 6
TD Sigma 11
TD Sigma 24
TD Kappa 2
TD Sigma 17
TD Sigma 22
TD Sigma 21
TD Sigma 12
TD Gamma 11
TD Gamma 24
TD Gamma 8
TD Kappa 10
TD Kappa 1
TD Gamma 4
TD Gamma 13
TD Gamma 22
TD Sigma 9
TD Gamma 5

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The list also shows the ships jumped in that report file, which was mainly TDs.

 

I think the TD losses is the point where due to fuel running out - which was a problem as both myself and Kobra were not able to manage our fleet.

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It does appear that with the addition of missles, the fighters are now much stronger. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to attend my fleet much in the past few days due to being very busy - hence the result of my fleet losing with minimal resistance. I believe the same goes for Kobra.

 

Losses/Jumps:

Destroyed Ships:
TD Kappa 23
TD Sigma 16
TD Kappa 14
TD Sigma 6
TD Sigma 10
TD Sigma 5
XG1 Gamma 14
XG1 Gamma 6
XG1 Gamma 10
XG1 Gamma 4
CRRCK Guillotine (own)
EWING Lakonia Nine
XG1 Gamma 7
XG1 Gamma 5
EWING Achilles Nine
XG1 Gamma 8
AWING Osprey Eight
XG1 Gamma 1
XJWING Phalanx Ten
EWING Lakonia Leader
AWING Osprey Leader
AWING Osprey Nine
AWING Osprey Three
MNFRG Tiger
AWING Osprey Twelve
MNFRG Speckled Hen
CLGUN New CLGUN
EWING Lakonia Twelve
XJWING Phalanx Twelve
CHGUN Comanche
EWING Achilles Six
EWING Lakonia Five
XJWING Phalanx Four
EWING Lakonia Two
XJWING Phalanx Eleven
EWING Achilles Four
XG1 New XG1
XG1 New XG1
XJWING Phalanx Five
TD Kappa 15
XG1 New XG1
CPC Cracker (own)
AWING Osprey Seven
XG1 New XG1
EWING Achilles Five
XG1 New XG1
CGUN New CGUN
CGUN Impaler (own)
XJWING Phalanx Three
XJWING Phalanx Six
XJWING Phalanx Seven
AWING Osprey Eleven
AWING Osprey Ten
EWING Lakonia Six
EWING Lakonia Eight
TD Gamma 13
TD Kappa 13
TD Gamma 15
TD Gamma 3
TD Gamma 7
TD Kappa 10
TD Kappa 7
TD Gamma 12
TD Kappa 1
TD Gamma 11
TD Gamma 21
TD Kappa 6
TD Gamma 9
TD Gamma 17
TD Kappa 4
TD Gamma 4

Jumped Ships:
LIBRTR Home Base One

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;D The EIDLN had to go though, I think it survived three big battles and managed to escape destruction every time.

 

I think the EIDLN lasted 2 cycles in that turn to go from 100% hull to destroyed. There were 144 TBs going for the EIDLN - a few died early on. Actually, due to some dock & jump order mistake there were some TBs left behind as well. :)

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I would limit the fighters that can carry PTs really. The loadout change thing makes some bombers even more deadly. Of course, the value of the total nr of bombers I put in was far more than the EIDLN was (it was 220k worth of TBs and NFRGs). But I destroyed a LIBRTR as well in 5 cycles of a turn.

 

To be honest, bombers should be this deadly - the TBs I used are quite weak, usually 1 or 2 shots from anything takes them down (sidenote: the unshielded fighters are way too weak compared to the shielded ones and overpriced as well in my opinion, especially if you consider the huge drawback of having to have a carrier) so any decent CAP/CSP of fighters would've done significant damage to them.

 

It is the PTs that really make bombers worth it - you don't want them for anything else as they just are too weak. (and hit shields) But they are also slow so you need to provide cover for them, which is a fair tradeoff.

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From the moment I jumped in, this is what happened in my detection range. I don't think all kills are mine but not sure:

Destroyed Ships:
TB Kappa 28 (own)
TB Epsilon 29 (own)
TB Rho 26 (own)
TB Sigma 16 (own)
TB Sigma 3 (own)
TB Epsilon 36 (own)
TB Epsilon 15 (own)
TB Sigma 12 (own)
TB Rho 15 (own)
TB Rho 4 (own)
TB Rho 20 (own)
TD Omega 16
EIDLN Galatea
TD Omega 12
TD Omega 14
TD Omega 24
TD Omega 19
KWING Gamma 9
KWING Gamma 11
KWING Gamma 22
KWING Gamma 5
KWING Gamma 20
KWING Gamma 4
KWING Gamma 16
KWING Gamma 2
TB Rho 2 (own)
TB Sigma 33 (own)
KWING Fortress Squadron 2
KWING Fortress Squadron 1
KWING Blaze Squadron 6
KWING Blaze Squadron 9
KWING Fortress Squadron 4
KWING Blaze Squadron 8
KWING Fortress Squadron 6
KWING Fortress Squadron 7
KWING Blaze Squadron 1
KWING Blaze Squadron 5
KWING Fortress Squadron 9
TB Rho 19 (own)
TB Rho 25 (own)
TB Rho 36 (own)
TB Sigma 18 (own)
TB Kappa 6 (own)
TB Epsilon 18 (own)
TB Rho 27 (own)
TB Rho 31 (own)
TB Epsilon 23 (own)
TB Sigma 29 (own)
TB Rho 7 (own)
TB Sigma 24 (own)
TB Rho 32 (own)
TB Sigma 6 (own)
TB Rho 29 (own)
TB Sigma 2 (own)
LIBRTR Home Base One
KWING Gamma 21
KWING Gamma 17
KWING Blaze Squadron 2
KWING Blaze Squadron 4
KWING Fortress Squadron 3
KWING Blaze Squadron 7
KWING Gamma 12
KWING Blaze Squadron 3
KWING Fortress Squadron 8
KWING Fortress Squadron 5

 

For those that are interested, I'm using a very easy (and very sloppy) parser for the log files to extract all the destroyed/jumped ships made in Autohotkey. The code for that is as follows:

FileSelectFile, SourceFile, 3,, Pick a report file to analyze.

if SourceFile =
return  ; This will exit in this case.

OutputDest = Destroyed Ships:
OutputJump = Jumped Ships:
Loop, read, %SourceFile%
{
    Loop, parse, A_LoopReadLine, `n,`r
    {
	RegExMatch(A_LoopField,"i)LOST CONTACT with (.*) at.*DESTROYED.*",DestPat)
	RegExMatch(A_LoopField,"i)(.*) destroyed",Dest2Pat)
	RegExMatch(A_LoopField,"i)LOST CONTACT with (.*) at.*JUMPED.*",JumpPat)

	if DestPat1
		OutputDest = %OutputDest%`n%DestPat1%
	if Dest2Pat1
	{
		IfInString,Dest2Pat1,Onboard System(s)
			break
		else
			OutputDest = %OutputDest%`n%Dest2Pat1% (own)
	}
	if JumpPat
		OutputJump = %OutputJump%`n%JumpPat1%

    }
}
MsgBox,%OutputDest%`n`n%OutputJump%
Clipboard = %OutputDest%`n`n%OutputJump%

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u know just for the hell of it i think Mark should send a SSD right into the middle of the combat zone and see how long it takes us to kill it oh and give us an extra 200k points to spend as well :P
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You could also make it so PT's hit shields. But yeah I don't see a massive amount wrong with what just happened. Without gravewell generators it'll always be possible to get 100 things with PT's together and jump in right next to an enemy cap-ship. I think the trick is to balance it so that, if you start form 10km away or something, and you have even points and a CAP your capital ships stand a chance. The main thing you've got to be carefull of is not making it so that fighters/bombers are more effective in some combination than their cost in capital ships.

 

To be honest, what I'd do in the main game is make it so that fighters and bombers are less cost effective, but much easier/take less time to build and keep supplied.

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what does everyone think about a better range for the PT.  I agree that with the current engine and immediate hits, 10km is a big advantage over interceptors.

 

Well, in theory the 'weakness' of PTs is that they can be shot down (the longer range the delivery, the higher the chance). I can imagine implementing this would require some non-trivial re-coding...

 

You could give them a relatively high miss rate, even against capital ships - at least as long as they are moving. And a very very narrow arc.

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I wouldn't make the PTs have a lower chance to hit. Just restrict them to the bombers that can carry it. The bombers themselves are quite fragile or really expensive, and in all cases they are pretty easy targets for fighters to intercept.

 

But I reckon that it's an acceptable tactic which I used - in normal fights, bombers will need to have cover to get through. In this case, I could jump on top of the EIDLN and LIBRTR and had the benefit of them not having any fighters on patrol near them other than some KWINGs.

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Actually, a 'flak factor' for ships based on the types and numbers of weapons on it has been an idea of mine for a while, and it might be implementable pretty quickly (after i figure out this fleet stuff).

 

In the meantime, I was thinking of bringing the range of PT down to say 7000 or something like that.

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