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 Post subject: Resources
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:37 am 
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Hey all.

I still piece little bits together (most in my head, some in code) for Reb2. Something I am currently chewing over is the resource system in Rebellion.

JediLaz made a suggestion in a post a little while ago (some good ideas in there btw).

Are you generally happy with the way the resources are? Without getting too technical are there minor tweeks you would like to see? I don't want to make it too over the top as it could take away from the fun of the game itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Resources
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:44 am 
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Hi :D

I decided to try a bit more complex resource system for Terra (more like in Anacreon), but I'm not sure how it will turn out.

In Rebellion you have to keep track only of three values, which is something even a trained chimpansee (or primitive fuzzy logic :? ) is capable of.

Btw. how many Rebellion2 projects are there? Three? Anyone else?

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 Post subject: Re: Resources
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:46 pm 
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It would be nice if there were more resources such as tibanna gas, credits and strategic metals such as hfredium and kammris. I think one aspect of adding in more resources and assigning certain planets with a higher resource abundance makes certain planets more strategic and more important, instead of being just another planet.


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 Post subject: Re: Resources
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:09 pm 
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While I like the idea of different resources, it raises a LOT of issues and really does mae things pretty complicated. Would you have to build different facilities to harvest them? Would only certain planets offer gas or ore? Really complicated to play, let alone prgram and balance.

I do think cash might be a cool addition to the generic "resources". It would have to be somehow connected to a safe and happy population as well as infrastructure. Certain planets (Thyferra with Bacta, Carida's Academy, etc.) might offer a general bonus to your units if you control them. That would reflect special resources without the massive complications.

In the game as it is supply lines are invisible and automatic. I always thought they should play a more prominent role in the game. They should still be automatic, but affected by enemy control of nearby systems/sectors. Also, I think regular units (not just special forces) should have missions. So the Empire would send out Carracks, etc. to "protect" suply lines and Rebels would send fighters to raid them, for instance. Small amounts of resources would change hands depending on the outcomes.

Finally, there should be different kinds of random events. The only ones in the game were Han's bounty hunters and the dreaded natural disasters. I think smugglers should offer trade (cash for resource points), bounty hunters might hire themselves out for one-shot missions, an enemy unit might defect, etc. Anyone remember an OLD game called Castles? I'm sure this kind of thing was implemented elsewhere (Romance of the Three Kingdoms had events, too) but Castles is what I remember. You might find a rich deposit of ore or get a chance to BUY (not build) a unit or ship. That kind of thing.

Just a few old ideas I've had kicing around in my head for, ohh, about ten years...


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 Post subject: Re: Resources
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:49 pm 
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I think more real traitors in the version I am making. Not enough in the original.

I think resources are fine as they are, the refineries slow down work according to your popularity or something. But one thing in the game, resources are too abundant. I never worry about running out.

I would like to see the Empire have high mantianance costs, so that when a Rebel destroys via sabotage one of thier refineries, it will really hurt. Vis a vis 'hit and run' tactics.

I am giving Rebels a Espionage ( I can't spell worth a hang) bonus if they control their Alliance Headquarters. Similiar to what the Empire throne effect on Coruscant for Leadership.

And optional function: Natural Distasters{ (None, Neutral, Decay, Expanding), (percent chance per turn), (number planets)} .

Since LA does not seem to give a hang about the PC games that made them [ 'ala "Force Unleashed" ] on alot of platforms except PC.
----------
I think I can place in your own external folder scripted events. The syntax would not be hard, use wordpad and basic logic functions similar to Basic. If turn() > 500 AND RND (1000)< 5 THEN Bounty ()

All gameconstants are in external custom files so you can enjoin them. I really hope to finish this first draft by fall.

If Bounty == 1 then Hans ()
Define function Hans ()
{ AliveCharacterMajor () Returns a true,
roll chance for capture, roll for injure, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Resources
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:12 am 
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If you are really considering scripting, LUA is probably the most popular for game engines. Many people should be familiar with it if you provide the proper objects to work with

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 Post subject: Re: Resources
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:31 am 
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Yes, indeed LUA every where. I just need time to learn it. :)

Hopeful in one year the second remake will have much more professional look and feel to the code and graphics. Using up to date code and compilers gives one much more power for speed of graphics and ease of use.

So far, for this project, the cpu seems not to bother with my old but effective style. Of course, I am going for strategy and not so much for great graphics so I can get away with it for now. This will support DX9.0c shaders if peeps want more pretty ships and effects, ASFAIK. In order to keep the frame rates up, then hardware support may have to be enabled by converting this code into true VC++ which Microsoft 2008 express free version will handle.

This is where I learned about this DarkBASIC (or you can right it in C++) on their MSN developer's website. It seems they are promoting it to work together, and it seems to work fine so far... 8) I hope my luck holds out.


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 Post subject: Re: Resources
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:23 pm 
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RenegadeMax wrote:
...

I do think cash might be a cool addition to the generic "resources". It would have to be somehow connected to a safe and happy population as well as infrastructure. Certain planets (Thyferra with Bacta, Carida's Academy, etc.) might offer a general bonus to your units if you control them. That would reflect special resources without the massive complications.

In the game as it is supply lines are invisible and automatic. I always thought they should play a more prominent role in the game. They should still be automatic, but affected by enemy control of nearby systems/sectors. Also, I think regular units (not just special forces) should have missions. So the Empire would send out Carracks, etc. to "protect" suply lines and Rebels would send fighters to raid them, for instance. Small amounts of resources would change hands depending on the outcomes....

I think "credits" would be a good addition to the resources. You could use excess credits to "buy off" people or enemy characters, buy information, or hard to obtain items (maybe the design plans for an enemy ship to build yourself, etc.), hire assassins, etc.

Giving ships "missions", I don't see the purpose. How about some examples? I think it would be better to have "points of interest" (i.e. nav buoys, space stations, etc) in space to move ships/fleets to, similar to systems: i.e. a fleet of ISD's plus an interdictor on a hyperspace lane coming into a sector (or within) to prevent enemy ships from invading. Of course having a hyperspace system would be needed. As in other games, if your ships use hyperspace lanes, they get to move at a quicker pace, and if you don't then it would take longer and there would be a slight chance the ships might get damaged/destroyed (Han Solo: "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?").

As for resource movement, it needs to remain automatic, but it definitely needs some refinement. Maybe resources flow faster in a sector where you have more support (neutral systems don't count, only enemy systems vs your systems), and slower if you don't (trying to smuggle resources and avoid detection where there's lots of enemy activity is time consuming). Also, blockading enemy systems needs to be refined. A point that Jahled once made, transports (especially those without weapons) can't seriously blockade an entire system! There should be a system in place that only takes capital ships (plus fighters, if onboard) into account, and maybe the firepower and number of ships into effect. A couple of ISD's would let fewer resources leave an enemy planet than a single corvette. An interdictor might have the blockade ability of an ISD or two. But there has to be a limit, such that an SSD is only somewhat more effective than an ISD (it is only one ship, one large ship mind you, but still only one ship). Blockading a system with more ships, covers more territory therefore it's more effective than with a single ship. But again, there has to be a limit: ten corvettes are not as effective as ten ISD's. Probably the best way to do this would be based on the number of mines and/or refineries, since that is where the resources (except credits) come from. Maybe something setup like maintence points; for mine/refinery you have 50 "transport" points. Every five turbolasers are worth one point for blockading, and every twenty lasers are worth one point for blockading, with a maximum of 150 blockading points per ship. Note if your ships has damage to the weapons (turbolasers), then they aren't as effective in blockading! An example:

Enemy system has 10 energy slots, with 5 mines and 3 refineries.
(5 mines + 3 refineries) x 50 transport points = 400 transport points
ISD has 260 total turbolasers: 260 turbolasers/5 + 0 lasers/20 = 52 blockading points
Corellian Corvette has 450 total lasers: 0 turbolasers/5 + 450 lasers/20 = 23 blockading points (round up)

It would take 8 ISD's (these are Mk-I versions remember!) to totally blockade a system or 18 Corellian Corvettes.
Four ISD's would only make the blockade ([4 x 52]/400) 52% effective.

This makes having lots of ships more important vs just a couple.

Of course if you're in the outer rim and orbit a system with a single mine or refinery, then it's practically under total blockade as soon as you get there. And all of this would apply for systems that have low popular support. Usually after assualting a system, you get the message that "valuable resources" are being smuggled out. Now it would be possible to reduce the smuggling until popular support increases enough.

Just some more ideas ... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Resources
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:28 pm 
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Great ideas, Tex.

My idea with ship missions would basically work like general espionage missions. Obviously TIEs can't run them because they're "short-range fighters". Escort missions work like running espionage on one of your own systems, in this case to prevent loss of supplies. Raiding fighters (or picket ships, for that matter), would have a chance to come back with some resources. In these cases you wouldn't select a target for the missions, you'd just assign a unit(s) that general duty. Combat, if it were included, would be automatic (just like with characters), and some number crunching would resolve who won or if some ships escape, are damaged, etc. It's just a simple little addition to gameplay to add a little depth without getting too crazy with the new coding. Of course if a genius team with time and resources wanted to build the ultimate sequel... I'd love to see all kinds of new stuff. Micromanagement forever!

Anyway, I really love your ideas about uses for credits and blockading, as well as the hyperspace lanes. Maybe if you had to control various systems along a lane (or a portion) to move supplies more efficiently? It also adds more strategic value to particular systems and collections of systems (like Monopoly!) than the original game had. I always wished for more strategy in that regard. Again, a cool gameplay enhancement without having to code too much new stuff in.

What do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Resources
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:33 am 
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I decided on having credits besides resources, as I think it holds a lot of promise without making the game overly complex. Thanks for the suggestions guys! It is great.

I am REALLY interestedin the whole 'space lanes' idea. I like where you are all going with it but I will have to see if there is a good way to build it in with out too much complesity. I don't want to clutter up the game. The simple fun aspect is really important.


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