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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:49 pm 
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Dark Lord of the Sith
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Essentially there are too many chiefs and not enough indians :)
We probably don't all agree what's a good design... nor would we want to sit down and program "someone else's game" design.

This is why there are game studios - designs to make the game and programmers to implement them. Not to say that programmers don't have input, but ultimately there's a business model and a certain amount of leadership. The overhead requirement to do it generally means you need enough people to quit their day-job :)

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:53 pm 
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nordwindranger wrote:
hahaha if Moribundus feels like a ghost, I must be a zombie or something.


Good to see you alive then. I still keep occasionally checking your devblog ;)

nordwindranger wrote:
I'm not saying that community involvement isn't important. I think the community can definitely help with art (2d work, 3d models, sound) ideas, and playtesting, but a game has to reach a certain level of development before it is worth it for the community to commit to the project. I guess what I'm saying is that once someone's project reaches a level where it can actually simulate the rebellion experience (using programmer art/mock-up models), it will then be ready for the community to get involved in fleshing it out.


But what about community coders? If you have six coders in the community, let them work on the engine separately and choose the one that looks best is IMHO a bit silly approach (and a terrible waste of manpower). Of course everyone is (de)motivated (eg. the more solo projects are here, the more I want to quit and stop wasting my time :lol: ) by what they can see and play, so artists won't be eager to create assets for a game that is not even available for public testing. But someone needs to write that game and that's best done in more people (even if it uses programmer art as placeholders), not the other way. But every team requires a team leader, which is something this community is lacking.

E is right about the chiefs and indians, it appears to be the curse of these communities. I have to admit I envy you your freedom with your TWE project. I guess I'm more interested in the engine design rather than the game itself :-/ There will be enough Rebellions for everyone after all :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:57 pm 
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Think you will find is that the biggest problem is level of development for each of the developers.

Everyone is comfortable with what they are used to. Whether its David in Java, yourself in C++/GL and what not. I have completed 2nd year level university courses in C++ and I am still kind of worried that I cant easily follow your code. At the same time as NordWind said, most of us are learning as we go.

On that note, I do have the engine completed to a satisfactory level for me, and as soon as I have most of the main map done I will release to group of the active people here on the forums to recieve feedback on Design and get further ideas from everyone. It wont have the 3D map done, though with the engine well developed I will certainly be able to bring that up fairly quickly.

I expect that should take about 2 months so looking at an early May release hopefully. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:27 pm 
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I dont get as much time to work on this anymore and not having access to the Internet is a pain in the ass when trying to work out how to code some things (ie XML loading in XNA so if anyone knows how please let me know )

But the game is moving along still

Basically, I have the main menu and settings for resolution done. Splash screen on the startup. After the main menu, I originally just had 400 systems looped through and created just to test how it handles. Get around 350 FPS, 400 if i remove the physics stuff which I may do if i cant find a reason to use it :) Memory usage sits at around 80MB with that many planets but I am pretty sure that will increase a fair amount after some time playing. I havent optimised anything at all, so that will come a bit later.

Each system has 3 placeholder rectangle above and to the right for characters, troops and ships which are currently not clickable (but easy to add now i know how to do it) which will bring up a list of what each list holds. Has the diplomacy bar as well as name of the system below each star.

I have click detection on the planets which when left clicked on it brings up a GUI Window with some basic details of the system and a placeholder for an image. That window has several tabs, one for troops, ships, facilities where you can build from. I havent completed those tabs yet but basically it will have a scroll box which will read from the types you are able to build, and display them, then a simple Quantity to build. An okay button to add it to the queue. Below this selection will show the queue of 3 boxes showing what is queued, how many, and how long till completion. Below that will be a remove button, so you can clear the queue.

Still plenty to do thats for sure and every time I add something it reminds me of 4000 other things I will need to add :)

In about a week or two Ill try and upload a prelim work of the 2D stuff for you guys to have a look at. I wouldnt call it a game yet, more like a pretty database but that will come with time.

On another note, anyone willing to throw up a nice Main Menu screen in png format would be greatly appreciated. I am not an artist by any means and 90% of what I am using currently is placeholder graphics.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:38 pm 
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man I've got to check this more often. I'm totally hopeless at providing timely replies. I'll admit that at times I do miss working on a sci-fi game. I was thinking the other day that it would be cool to have floating buildings, like in Tribes, but they didn't have those in WW2 so I'm out of luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:25 am 
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Hi Guys,

Probably time I put in an update on my progress. Finally completed the Map and Team editors. This will allow up to 1000 different units for each team as well as Create and make the universe. There are probably more functions I could add to it to make making easier but in its current state it should be more than usable. It hasn't been extensively tested nor used much at all as Ive been hard at work on everything and only just finished it. Ive completed most of the engine and units as well as learnt quite a bit about graphics programming.

The main things I have left to do are:
Implementing the graphics of showing the universe(not incredibly hard)
Using input to move units and what not(a little hard)
Implement Missions/Research/Events(could be hard)
3D Battles(probably hardest) which i will do last.

What I am looking for at the moment is someone to help create the content(universe and teams) as well as source pictures for each unit and models if at all possible. Anyone willing to give it a shot, shoot me an email @ mijatovic@iinet.net.au.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:10 am 
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Well last time I left an update here, I just explained what I had done.

I am prepared to show a little more now.

Here is a preview picture of what has been completed in game so far.
http://yfrog.com/f/mxlatestpreviewj/

In about a month, I believe my 2D portion should almost be completed. From there I will test the game on multiple systems, fixing any errors that pop up. Ill also check performance and so long as its respectable then I will move on to the 3D portion. Initially, it will be released as MP only however I will be looking into adding AI. I have a couple of coders I can consult with so hopefully I can convince one of these guys to do some AI while I do the 3D :P

Specifically for testers, I will be looking for someone who has different resolutions. 1024x768 , 1280x1024 and 1920x1080 ill need to check. Those with onboard video cards may as well not bother as I highly doubt they will run the game(uses Shader Model 2) and I wont be adding code to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:42 am 
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Dark Lord of the Sith
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Don't take this the wrong way. I don't want to discourage you from making an awesome game.

But I have to say that the floating windows makes it look like it's going be a click-fest again. As I don't see any window management, I can only speculate on the possible bad; it could be a nightmare to manage. Rebellion's primitive window management would be horrible to replicate.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:08 am 
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I kind of like the free floating window design, of course I would have to actually try his implementation of it for a proper assessment. If the right quick minimize features, drag to smart dock on screen, or turn mouse wheel on window title bar to collapse window (*nix) and leave bar on screen. I'd like the idea of the dockable menus so that the interface could be customized to users preference and display resolution. This design route would have to functionally superior to classic Rebellion though because that GUI did suck.

Ex. A dockable main menu system for Build Dialog that would list systems controlled by player, click or hover desired system and either (1) a scrollout submenu that so long as remained focus of the mouse actions would remain expanded and then collapse back into main dock, or (2) open a separate window with a quick minimize feature such as an action by clicking the mouse again outside of the window's focus. The main menu could then hide an optional auto-hide feature similar to ones in many applications, when you move the mouse near the trigger area of the screen, it reappears again. Also, preferable that these menus could be freely docked for player's preference.

Style wise, your current system is top-notch, coming from a LXDE desktop environment it feels very familiar already. I prefer the simplistic approach and do not waste precious development time on GUI aesthetics that only you or a few people may end up liking. Focus on the content and have the main body of the game application be the star backdrop and galactic map functioning more as a dynamic wallpaper than a game, then if you customize a plug-in interface to the application to allow external applications, or a bash terminal so I can run irssi during multiplayer... or at least supported windowed application mode, or that would be preferred default for me at least... I did get out on a rambling tangent again, you're probably not even making this for Linux but be nice if it was OpenGL and cross platform... but one can dream! Oh Rebellion II, Where oust you! :)

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My old Rebellion site (very web 1.0) - Bud's Korner and Rebellion Strategy


Last edited by budious on Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:51 am 
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Evaders99 wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way. I don't want to discourage you from making an awesome game.

But I have to say that the floating windows makes it look like it's going be a click-fest again. As I don't see any window management, I can only speculate on the possible bad; it could be a nightmare to manage. Rebellion's primitive window management would be horrible to replicate.


Im always open to constructive advice however I have yet to be given a viable alternative to implement. With regards to window management what do you mean? I had all those windows open more to show their creation rather than have them used. If you mean to have them minimise like in Rebellion I will certainly look into implementing that.

With no ideas to change the interface, I have to stick with what I know. I think people talk up Rebellions interface problems anyway, as I never once thought it was a struggle and didnt even realise it was a problem till I saw some people here.

I could consider merging in some windows and removing others to make it less annoying. Any other ideas?

In reply to budious, unfortunately coding the game in OpenGL is not an option. I used XNA which is Windows-Only and to convert to OpenGL would take far too long. The game source however, is opensource and I have no problem with letting someone take a shot at converting it all :P

You've given me some ideas as well to the interface and I will go back and try and design something. The more ideas the merrier, because I want to make it a better game for all.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:12 am 
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Sorry about the incoherent last post. Was all over the place.

Anyway I could try having a drop down system which has a list of all your planets, from there if it has shipyards or facilities I could add another menuwindow allows you to open the production dialog for either ships, facilities or troops. Only if the system had production capabilities would it be shown and then only the relevant subsystem that has a production type and isnt currently producing.

eg

Kuat - Ship Building
- Troop Training
Coruscant - Facility Construction
Hoth - Troop Training
Yavin - Facility Construction
- Troop Training
- Ship Building

This would hopefully reduce the need to find individual planets and open up their production windows.

Thought on that process?


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:06 am 
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I once had a very simple rebellion minigame of my own.

I had some fixed buttons on my interface that not only openend a prod window but also cycled it throug all available systems if you hit that button again. The button also had a number on it to show the # of sectors with idle facilities of a given type.

While it was a clickfest to get to a specific system that way, it was quite simple to keep them all producing.

A system like that could be convenient.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:37 am 
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Just started playing rebellion again, i searched the internet for other players and found this plattform.
And up to this point from what i have read i really hope you get your project running.

The last times i played rebellion in a big galacxy, i really got lost in: where i produced what at which time...
So as a sugestion: would it be possible to implement a seperate overview of all shipyards, barraks and factories, with name of the planet , product in list, destination, sugested production time. (my idea would be really simliar to the overview menu in Civ IV)

So far to "just adding some ideas", i would offer my help if you would like to implement a third party (like the Yuuzhan Vong). While i have little expierence in game-design, i have some major coding skills and so know what is possible to create and implement and won't just fool around with stupid and impossible ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:48 am 
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The project has a fairly solid base.

I could certainly add more simple information in the form of idle facilities and what not.

I think I could implement something along the lines of Civ4's city builder. It probably wouldnt be that hard and would give you a quick overview of your owned starsystems. I actually really like that idea and will try and add an overview of systems soonish so people can have a look.

I will have to have a think about how to go about changing up production.

With regards to the implementing yuuzhan Vong idea, I do have an editor which would allow you to create your own team as such. Then its simply a matter of getting together the required models and textures that would be part of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Rebellion 2: Path to Power
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:49 am 
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steel wrote:
Sorry about the incoherent last post. Was all over the place.

Anyway I could try having a drop down system which has a list of all your planets, from there if it has shipyards or facilities I could add another menuwindow allows you to open the production dialog for either ships, facilities or troops. Only if the system had production capabilities would it be shown and then only the relevant subsystem that has a production type and isnt currently producing.

eg

Kuat - Ship Building
- Troop Training
Coruscant - Facility Construction
Hoth - Troop Training
Yavin - Facility Construction
- Troop Training
- Ship Building

This would hopefully reduce the need to find individual planets and open up their production windows.

Thought on that process?


Well anything to simplify the process. I was thinking of having a primary system finder menu, varying options on how to sort, alphabetical by system name, sort by sector then by name, or custom sort (drag system name icon to order systems to preference in menu). From there, when you hover a particular system name, a submenu rolls out to the side, this menu would quickly collapse back to the main system finder menu when the mouse focus leaves the panel. Within the submenu, provide a row of tabs at the top for characters, troops, ships, structures, production. This type of system would bring all the available system windows into a single menu system for faster logical access. For navigating the submenu, support for mouse button 4/5 and left/right arrows on keyboard could also allow faster system scrolling. I borrow this design concept from Birth of the Federation which is the equivalent of Rebellion from the Star Trek gaming catalog.

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"In the future it will become easier for old negatives to become lost and be 'replaced' by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten." - George Lucas, 1988. [U.S. Congressional hearing testimony on film preservation.]

My old Rebellion site (very web 1.0) - Bud's Korner and Rebellion Strategy


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