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 Post subject: OFFICIAL: Combat Discussion
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:20 pm 
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OK, I think I've found an indestructable Bayonet class. Now unfortunately my first log got overwritten before I had the wit to save it but the battle went as follows.

1) I jump in a Corona, 25 Star Vipers and 8 R41 Starchasers (see fig 1)
2) For a turn my Corona fires and hits every time with its  3 TLC4 and 1 IC4
3) At the same time my fighters all take one cycle of shots at the Bayonett and then fly away for some reason (See the line of corpses in fig 2 for their flight path)
4) By calculation I've now done enough damage to take down the Bayonet's shields. This is assuming that the damage and shots/cycle info is accurate and that when it says 'x HIT y with a TLC4' in the log it means all the shots in the fusilade (a TLC4 has 4 4x75 strength shots per cycle) hit.
5) While this has been going on the Bayonet and Correlian ship have been destroying fighters and do some damage to the Coronas shields

6) New turn
7) from the report below the Bayonet has now taken enough damage to be destroyed

So my questions are three fold:

Why did the fighters fly off and come back?
Why isn't the Bayonet dead?
Why did the Corona only use its LC4 battery once and miss?

Image

fig 1: Everything jumped into the location of the Corona

Image

fig 2: The fighters then flew off to the left of the Bayonet, as can be seen by the lines of corpses

And finally the report:

Quote:
SVIPER New SVIPER missed by HTLB4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by LC4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by IC2 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with IC4

Turn: 209 Cycle: 2

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by HTLB4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by LC4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by IC2 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with IC4

Turn: 209 Cycle: 3

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by HTLB4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by LC4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes a critical hit.  Onboard System(s) destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by IC2 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with IC4

Turn: 209 Cycle: 4

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by HTLB4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by LC4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes a critical hit.  Onboard System(s) destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by IC2 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with IC4

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

Turn: 209 Cycle: 5

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by HTLB4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by LC4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes a critical hit.  Onboard System(s) destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by IC2 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with IC4

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

Turn: 209 Cycle: 6

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by HTLB4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by LC4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by IC2 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes a critical hit.  Onboard System(s) destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER destroyed

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with IC4

CORONA Pricked Finger misses TF New TF with LC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits TF New TF with LC4

LOST CONTACT with TF New TF at S:50100,50100 pos:5023287,5068795 (DESTROYED)

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

Turn: 209 Cycle: 7

R41 New R41 missed by HTLB4 from BYONET Spearhead

R41 New R41 hit by LC4 from BYONET Spearhead

R41 New R41 takes SHIELD damage

R41 New R41 takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by IC2 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with IC4

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

Turn: 209 Cycle: 8

R41 New R41 missed by HTLB4 from BYONET Spearhead

R41 New R41 hit by LC4 from BYONET Spearhead

R41 New R41 takes SHIELD damage

R41 New R41 takes HULL damage

R41 New R41 takes a critical hit.  Onboard System(s) destroyed

R41 New R41 destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes a critical hit.  Onboard System(s) destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER missed by IC2 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with IC4

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

Turn: 209 Cycle: 9

R41 New R41 missed by HTLB4 from BYONET Spearhead

R41 New R41 hit by LC4 from BYONET Spearhead

R41 New R41 takes SHIELD damage

R41 New R41 takes HULL damage

R41 New R41 takes a critical hit.  Onboard System(s) destroyed

R41 New R41 destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by IC2 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes a critical hit.  Onboard System(s) destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER destroyed

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with IC4

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

Turn: 209 Cycle: 10

R41 New R41 missed by HTLB4 from BYONET Spearhead

R41 New R41 missed by LC4 from BYONET Spearhead

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes a critical hit.  Onboard System(s) destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by IC2 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes SHIELD damage

SVIPER New SVIPER hit by TLC4 from CLGUN Patawotomie Creek

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes HULL damage

SVIPER New SVIPER takes a critical hit.  Onboard System(s) destroyed

SVIPER New SVIPER destroyed

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with TLC4

CORONA Pricked Finger hits BYONET Spearhead with IC4

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F

SVIPER New SVIPER hits BYONET Spearhead with LC4F



Last edited by markb50k on Sat May 31, 2008 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 4:36 pm
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As far as I have understood, fighters will "break" when they get too close to their target - that's maybe the reason why yours flew away.

Regarding "theoretical" firepower and observed experience, it seems that weapons won't deal as much damage as what their stats say - that's what I've seen in my own battle as well, the enemy took more hits to be destroyed than I had anticipated. Maybe there's some armour or "shield absorption" to factor as well, which might mean that the damage done to the hitpoints stats is somewhat reduced compared to the "raw" firepower value. Having more information on how the calculations are run would definitely be useful.

As for the Bayonet, with what I'm throwing at it I'd doubt it'll survive - thanks for softening it a bit, anyway. ;D


Last edited by Turg on Sun May 25, 2008 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:47 pm 
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See I think your probably right on both counts there. At a guess it's not multiplying the damage, either by the shot/cycle number or by the number in the LC4 (or whatever it is). And the same with the fighters breaking.

But I'm still confused why the Corona didn't use its 2 LC4 batterys. Also there's the fact that the log (on both occasions) didn't record any damage taken by the Bayonet, though that may be because my report isn't privy to that information.

The Bayont is the Spearhead if the owner wants to add their info on the matter.


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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 4:36 pm
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Idle_Scholar wrote:
But I'm still confused why the Corona didn't use its 2 LC4 batterys.

That's because these 2 LC4 fire towards the rear. That can be seen on the Unit Characteristics screen, by clicking on the different "W" slots (bottom left of the picture).

Idle_Scholar wrote:
Also there's the fact that the log (on both occasions) didn't record any damage taken by the Bayonet, though that may be because my report isn't privy to that information.

When I select the BYONET on the "Enemy" screen, I can see its damage - its shields are nearly down, so yes you did harm it quite a lot.


Sounds like there's quite some stuff that isn't documented yet, once Bern will have written the readme things should be easier to understand...


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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:04 am
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Ahh I get the weapons display now. I missed the writing in the top right. I also didn't realise about the selectable enemy display. I guess eventually it'll appear when you click on an enemy ship on the map, as opposed to having to select it form a list.

Edit: Holding down ALT+LMB selects enemy units for perusal


Last edited by Idle_Scholar on Sun May 25, 2008 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:39 am 
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Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 2:05 am
Posts: 4
wow, sorry didnt see this thread.  good discussion.

Some tidbits:

when a weapon hits, it does a random percentage of its damage.  so the full damage amount doesnt apply. 

Also, instead of constantly tweaking damage amounts for certain weapons, i have a single damage_modifier which is currently set at 0.5, which i use to globally affect damage rates, given users complaints of battles taking too short, i modified damage down to make it accumulate slower giving ships more time to live and the owner more time to make tactical decisions.

i also tell you that you hit another ship if at least one of the weapon shots in that weapon (i.e.  LCs shoot four times a cycle).  if one of those hits, i tell you, but i dont keep telling you if the 2nd 3rd 4th etc. hit, to keep the battle reports at a reasonable length (bandwidth considerations).  you can ALT click on any enemy to see where their shield and hull damages are at, that the only realistic feedback you should be able to get anyway.

fighters DO break away from their attack and then return, usually when they get within 500m (whatever the BRKRNG is in their specs) of their target, then they fly away until the ATKRNG in their specs, then turn to attack again.  Cap ships just eventually sit at the ATKRNG and dont close the distance.  Its my attempt at putting in automated tactics.


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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:20 am 
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Well, I'm the former Bayonet owner... not bad for complete autopilot apparently! I haven't been able to log in at all this weekend, so I'm afraid I can't provide much additional data.

Oh, btw, Skyblazer if you read this... can you please stop camping my starting sector? The warzone is ten sectors north of here :P


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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:09 pm 
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Posts: 26
Location: Australia
lol, I thought it was the combat sector.

But yeah ive not been able to play all weekend generally because my email doesn't like it when i get the entire galsim .zip emailed out to me for some reason. It complains of to many files to scan...

Anyways i'll be leaving once my TIE Advance are done with ur bayonet :P


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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:17 pm 
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I was wondering where everyone was, it's quite empty in the sector.  ;D

I have a question on how the battle turn is run: I suppose the units get processed sequentially, and that if a unit is dead before its turn it won't fire ? In which case, who gets to "fire first" would have some kind of advantage... A system where all "fire" orders are processed for everyone (including the "just killed"), then destroyed units get erased, would be fairer.


About "automated tactics": would be great if the user were able to set his choices... this might not be easy, but would enhance the game for, well, the nitpickers that look into every detail.


PS: it might be interesting to test higher numbers, just to see "if the engine is able to handle that".

PS2: the mixing of tactical scale means that, at any case and to keep this manageable, "scale" for each player will necessarily be smaller than the former EvR one. Not a "good" or "bad" thing, but I feel this will be different. Considering how much care would likely be needed to nurse a single fleet, managing a whole system might be very time-consuming. Unless a lot of scripts are made available to help automate orders. ;)


Last edited by Turg on Mon May 26, 2008 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:23 pm 
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I was thinking about fighter tactics and started to formulate something.

Basically I'd have it split into three.

1) The ship advances into range and just sits there, adjusting for movement of its target but otherwise remaining stationary. Like the defult Cap-Ship behaviour.

2) The ship conducts strafing runs, where it flies at the target, then past it, then turns around and repeats. This is a bit like what fighters do now, but currently this simply leads to a trail of dead fighters, when they'd get more shots off by sitting there and firing. If it can be set up that they are much harder to hit given a high relative speed between target and ship this would be worthwhile.

3) Turning dogfight mode (or really cool fights). Basically two groups of fighters fly at each other, select targets then try to get on each others tail. I've got some good ideas as to how you could code this but before I work out more details how is movement done? Do ships turn at the start of each time unit then fly forwards at whatever speed they select, or does it take one 'pip' to turn, then another to move, or can it turn as it moves (producing a circular trajectory), and do they have acceleration or is it instant? I'm also assuming the game engine already calculates the vector between an attacker and a target. Oh and finally how does it work out priority between ships or is it all simultaneous?

Sorry for all the questions but I've done a bit of C++, a tiny bit of Java and plenty of maths and I think I can come up with something really sweet.


Last edited by Idle_Scholar on Mon May 26, 2008 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:25 am 
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choosing tactics is something I can look at after i speed up the end turn processing.

FYI, during the combat phase, even ships that are destroyed that cycle get a chance to fire.  I just made a change in the code to allow for that.  Previously if a ship was killed before it got to fire, it didnt, but now it does.


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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:28 am
Posts: 7
Location: Versailles, France
It would be quite interesting to allow for more detailed orders for fleets (some default formations come to mind), but preferably those that can be used unattended as well.

As for ship target priorities, could it be given defaults like "fighters", "small cap ship", "medium cap ship", "large cap ships" - this would allow for ships to prick their priority targets first, so you won't get a ship equipped with a lot of heavy turbolasers to use these on fighters, while a small anti-fighter ship like a lancer or so would go fire at the enemy star destroyer in stead of the fighters :)

As for the combat sector, after having figured out some of the controls of GalSim, I guess I can move that way as well. I always wanted new ships ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:46 am 
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Hey Cracker jack how much damage did ur bayonet take anyways?

My fleet was destroyed while i was asleep which is generally when everything happens for me these days so i don't know. I know my fighters knocked about 8% off ur shields and my gunship was attacking for a fair while while ur ship was picking on one of my 2 heavy gunships who never got into firing range.


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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:09 am 
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They Bayonet was down to about 3% shields after the last ships was destroyed. The fighters didn't add much, but CGUN was plunking away for a good while, and the second CHGUN survived long enough to get into firing range and get a few licks in before being taken out.

For some observations on my side: First, HTLBs seem to be firing twice as often as they're supposed to, according to the weapons part of the website. Both batteries were firing every cycle. On the other hand HTLBs are *incredibly* inaccurate. Not once in that entire battle did both HTLBs hit at the same time, even when firing at the CGUN which was close enough for the ships to be exchanging LC fire. Every cycle one missed and the other *maybe* hit. I'm not sure exactly how hit detection works, but currently the fact that HTLBs have such a long range seems rather useless, since they seem to miss consistently at their max range, while TLCs never seem to miss at all once they're in range (both targeting capital ships)


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 Post subject: Re: Our weapons are useless!!!
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:38 am 
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It was interesting watching that fight though even though I only saw some of the fighter combat and not much of it at that though. but reading a lot of it and seeing the amount of damage just 12 TIE Avengers did to ur shields which was a total of 6% of ur shields they took out which if u do the maths is a fair amount of damage for just 12 TIE's. The Cloakshapes did bugger all being to slow, having weak shields and their weapons being no where near as good as the Avengers. So just 24 of them got majorly out did by just the 12 Avengers. A few interesting things I noticed about the cap ships side of the battle from what i read in the reports was that Heavy gunships aren't that worth it but normal gunships seem to atleast be worth their value in points. Long before they got into firing range they had their shields reduced down to 66% and that was on both of them with the Blazing Star being destroyed before Blazing Fire ever made it into range however Blazing Speed my little gunship just got in there and peppered that bayonet for all its worth. All in all my fleet was out classed, due to a lack of range and durable ships.

My New fleet has had some corrections made to it to work better in this combat system :)


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