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 Post subject: Balancing the shiplist pricing (updated imperial pricing)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:42 am 
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well my original thoughts on this are to basically test the mod in its current state and scale down the current pricing down by dividing it by 50, after that i will test the ships performance in game and adjust ships that seem over or under priced. After that i begin adjusting ships based on hyper rating (class one, two and three) and then on supplies and hanging rating.

Ships prices sadly have to be scaled down as sadly at ,most your looking at around 200vps a turn per planet after trade (and thats only the big ones). Also i will lower and raise prices based on class.

Ship roles basics

interceptor: z-95, a wing, tie int, tie advanced
bomber: ywing, tie bomber, bwing
space superiority: xwing, tie defender
assault craft: assault transport, skipray, storm trooper transport
picket: system patrol craft, guardian cruiser
gunship: corellian gunship etc
corvette: any fast ship that is lightly armed

anti-starfighter frigate: it guns down fighters ;)
frigate: any vessel that primarily acts as a screening vessel
monitor: any ship that has a few very big guns and nothing else
cruiser: well rounded ships that trade armor for speed
destroyer: any vessel that is primarily tasked with chasing down and destroying another class
battleship: any vessel that is armed with multiple tiers of weaponry and heavy shielding/armor
carrier: any vessel that primary armemanet is its bombers/fighters
Transport: light armor, average speed, minimal weaponry plenty of storage space for troops
Supply ship: light armor, average speed, minimal weaponry plenty of storage space for additional fleet supplies.

as i mentioned before these are the roles i plan on using however i do need some help deciding if this is really enough or if this is to basic, please anyone, post some thoughts on how to expand this if it needs expanding :D once enough people seem happy with this then i can begin to work on fitting ships into the classes and deciding if certain ships fit into more than one role, IC, perhaps a ISD would be a destroyer, carrier and transport as its a planetary invasion vessel (perhaps even that could be a role?).

*edit*

expanding on what i already said

nterceptor
z-95
a wing
tie int
tie advanced

bomber
ywing
tie bomber

advanced bomber

bwing
k-wing
tie scimitar
missile boat

space superiority

xwing
tie defender
R-41 starchaser

cloaked fighter

tie Phantom
cloakshape fighter

capture craft

Escourt Shuttle
Assault Transport
Escourt Shuttle
DX-9 Transport
Assault shuttle

assault craft

Skipray Blastboat
Corellian Heavy Gunship

picket

System Patrol Craft
Broadside Frigate
PB-950 Patrol Craft

gunship

Bayonet Light Cruiser

corvette

Corellian Heavy Corvette
Corellian Corvette
Marauder Corvette

anti-starfighter frigate

Tartan Patrol Cruiser
Lancer Frigate
Guardian Light Cruiser

frigate

Carrack Cruiser
Nebulon B2 Frigates
Nebulon B Frigate
Pursuit Light Frigate

monitor

Dreadnought
MC-40b
Bulk Cruiser
CC-9600 Frigate
Assault Frigate

cruiser

Enforcer Cruiser
Victory Destroyer mk2
Loronar Strike Cruiser
Invincible Dreadnought

destroyer

Venator Destroyer
MC-80 Liberty
Imperator Destroyer Mk2
Victory Destroyer
Imperator Destroyer
MC-80- Miria
Republic, Star Destroyer
Bothan Assault Cruiser
MC-90 Heavy Cruiser Defiance

battleship

Dauntless Cruiser
Allegiance Star Destroyer
Independence Cruiser
Bulwark Battle Cruiser

Intimidation

Eclipse SuperStarDestroyer
Executor SuperStarDestroyer
Viscount Star Defender
Death Star II (still thinking about it)

carrier

Escourt Carrier
Endurance Fleet Carrier

Fleet interdiction

Immobilizer 416 Cruiser
Dominator Star Destroyer
Rejuvenator Star Destroyer
CC-7700 Frigate

Transport

Galofree Transport
Action VI Transport
Star Galleon

Supply ship

Star Galleon ?
perhaps the mining ship

I added in a few bits from the original like intimidation class, to me these ships arnt really build for combat effectiveness but more just cos you can, these are still far more powerful than single ship or a several small ships, please tell me if you think i placed anything in the wrong place.


Last edited by Darth Malice on Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing the shiplist pricing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:15 pm 
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ok troops and hyperspace, should i go with more canon values or have the amounts decided more on the class? i have been tempted to go with more canon values however doing hyperspace more based on roles could be a could think as republic players would have a advantage as generally their ships are faster in hyperspace.

Also something i am also thinking about the sublight speeds used in 0.5, personally i think these are abit slow, what do you think, should ships like the ISD have speeds more like 300?

What about the current shiplist, do people agree with it? is it missing something for either side?

When it comes to balancing should all sides be equal or should imperials and republic be balanced so they have advantages that fit with "canon" more?

What about extra shiplists? would you like to see the CIS make a appearance as just a extra option as well as a pirate option?


Last edited by Darth Malice on Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing the shiplist pricing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:53 pm 
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Nah, no pirate options IMHO. If you want to pirate, join as a faction and pirate from there by capturing planets. Same difference.

As far as speeds are concerned, the higher the better. An SD doing 300 would be nice, but ships like the Eclipse and Executor should also be able to do 300. It's pretty stupid that a ship so powerful goes at half the hyperspeed, when it dosn't.

In balancing, isn't Warlords already pretty well balanced between Imps and Rebels?


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing the shiplist pricing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:20 pm 
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sorry curse i meant sublight speed not hyperspace, for hyperspace i have a plan

Probes 600 squares per turn
Class one 450
Class two 300
class three 150

To put those prospective a planet will be around 600-800 squares apart form the closet one, anyways since 0.45 sublight speeds have been dropped, im not sure i like it, when i say balancing im on about pricing, if i divide all ships by 50 heres a quick list of a few

fighters
Tie Vanguard - 4vp
Tie Fighter - 5vp
Tie Interceptor - 10vps
Tie Bomber - 10vp
Tie Sentinel - 7vps
Assault Gunboat - 24
Missile Boat -50
Tie Avenger - 20
Tie Defender - 30
Tie Phantom - 12

frigates

Lancer Frigate - 50
Nebulon B2 Frigate - 700
Tartan Patrol Cruiser - 700
Carrack Cruiser - 700
Loronar Strike Cruiser - 1000
Escort Carrier - 500
Dreadnought - 700
Enforcer Cruiser - 1200
Immobilizer 416 Cruiser - 1400
Star Galleon - 900

destroyers

Venator Destroyer - 2000
Imperator Destroyer - 4000
Imperator Destroyer Mk2 - 5000

Supers

Executor SuperStarDestroyer - 40,000

personally i think those ratios are abit off around the fighter area also either the destroyers may need to come up abit or frigates go down, off the top of my head fighters should be around the, not sure about the executor either, that needs to be tested as well but i would think 10mks or 8 mk2s should be able to take that down.

Tie Vanguard - 40vp
Tie Fighter - 50vp
Tie Interceptor - 100vps
Tie Bomber - 100vp
Tie Sentinel - 70vps
Assault Gunboat - 240
Missile Boat -500
Tie Avenger - 200
Tie Defender - 300
Tie Phantom - 120

and the lancer frigate should be around 500vps, the escort around 1k and the Immobilizer around 2k, also something else that needs to be added for fighters is the salvo ability, those figures are rough and off the top of my head but i think balance wise 8 missile boats should be able to take out a destroyer just as 40 TB's should, im not so sure with salvo removed, also i need to test how effective the lancer frigate actually is but i have a feeling that accuracy on anti fighter craft me need to be raised.

please bare in mind that these prices dont really take into account for hyperspeed, hanger, how many troops they can carry etc.


Last edited by Darth Malice on Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing the shiplist pricing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:50 am 
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I like the Executor price.... :D

Hmm, last time I played Warlords, TFs really sucked... Like really crappy and were only good as meat shields. How about they cost 3-4 VP?


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing the shiplist pricing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:52 am 
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well these prices are by no means final, these are just based on evilles pricing, im sure the TF would be nice at that price however i do feel that perhaps fighters would become abused and the gigantic amount might make battles difficult to play :P As i said i need to test the current pricing and see just how well these things perform, also i have my doubts as the the isdmk2 ending up as 5 k, im sure after testing the price will rise a few thousand and thats before taking into account hyperdrive, troops and all the other goodies she has ;)

I thought you might like the price compared to GCO, what it was 120k in that game (just another example of imbalances the game currently has but refuse to admit ;) )

ps, the tie fighter is surprisingly good, whips them Z95's a new Ahole ;) (well not that Z95's are good but, you know).


Last edited by Darth Malice on Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing the shiplist pricing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:56 pm 
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For those of you paying attention after doing a few tests i have more of a idea of what ships prices are going to be like and some balance changes that may need to be done (before this is a sure thing i will need to do some more tests, also these prices reflect performance in HW2 only, these may go up and down as other figures are taken into consideration).

Generally frigates will need to come down by around 50% (bar a few), fighters is something im not so sure, one thought i have been having is that anti capital missiles need a slight damage increase, anyone else have any thoughts here. As of yet i havent even look at the executer class, first i need to get the lower end stuff within a price range that seems fair.

so current things may look something like that

Fighters

Tie Vanguard - 40
Tie Fighter - 50
Tie Interceptor - 65
Tie Bomber - 100
Tie Sentinel - 70
Assault Gunboat - 240
Missile Boat -650
Tie Avenger - 150
Tie Defender - 350
Tie Phantom - 120

Corvettes

Skipray Blastboat - 180
Lambda Shuttle - 120
Escort Shuttle - 250
DX-9 Transport - 480
Assault shuttle - 400
System Patrol Craft -  200
Corellian Gunship - 200
Corellian Corvette - 160
Corellian Heavy Corvette - 400
Broadside Frigate - 300
Guardian Light Cruiser - 180
PB-950 Patrol Craft - 140 - none of these are tested

frigates

Pursuit Light Frigate - 400 (still needs testing
Lancer Frigate - 250 (untested as i havent started with fighters yet)
Nebulon B2 Frigate - 900
Nebulon Frigate - 350
Tartan Patrol Cruiser - 350 (same as lancer)
Carrack Cruiser - 350
Loronar Strike Cruiser - 1250 (needs more testing but its a pretty damn good ion ship, hell it takes about 4 of these to disable a ISDmk1 in about 30 seconds).
Escort Carrier - 900 (this is to take into account a high hanger)
Dreadnought - 800
Enforcer Cruiser - 450
Immobilizer 416 Cruiser - 1400
Star Galleon - 2000 (this is taking into account a high troop carrying abilty)

destroyers

Victory Destroyer
Victory Destroyer Mk2
Allegiance Star Destroyer
Dominator Star Destroyer
Invincible Dreadnought - 2500 (more tests as of yet)
Venator Destroyer - 2500
Imperator Destroyer - 5000 (im not sure on this, atm is seems to be very weak against ion cannons, most ships up close seem to have no problem disabling it).
Imperator Destroyer Mk2 - 7000

anyways thoughts on this? i think im making some good progress, if anyone wants to see what they think of these prices please test them for yourself and tell me if you think i over or under priced anyways.

Super ships

Executor SuperStarDestroyer - 90,000 (still needs more testing, performance against may have a positive affect on his price)
Eclipse SuperStarDestroyer - 140,000? (i think the superlaser needs some tweaking, the current recharge rate is insane)
*edit*

ok eville, i will leave those be for now, thanks for the information :D


Last edited by Darth Malice on Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing the shiplist pricing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:36 pm 
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I'd wait on ships with ions, I am adjusting those stats, so the lornar will be a lot less powerful in terms of disabling power


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing the shiplist pricing (updated imperial imperial pricing)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:27 am 
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So far thats the pricing i have come up with, corvettes still need looking at, bombers still need testing and and i still need to test anti fighter capabilities of most craft.

So far i have actually been very impressed with the Tie fighter, it whoops the Tie interceptor (but i think thats bugged or under powered cos on 6TF vs 5TI is still loses..) Tie avenger is very nice, its about equal with the TF ( 15 v 1 odds on favor the avenger will win but you wont have alot yet). I also need to do alot more testing against republic ships, i've mainly been testing against imperial vessels so but this could see price increases in the fighter area (as the TI might perform far better against republic ships). Also i cant judge so well with the fighters against the AI as you tend to get a free round of sounding taking out a squadron or two, i think perhaps that fighers hp may need to increased on shielded craft slightly, this might give them the extra edge they need when facing heavy numbers, perhaps a extra 25-50% no sure on, wouldnt mind your thoughts on that eville :D


Last edited by Darth Malice on Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing the shiplist pricing (updated imperial imperial pricing)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:58 am 
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Wow! SSD prices went up. I'll be lucky if I can even afford half an Executor lol


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing the shiplist pricing (updated imperial imperial pricing)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:34 am 
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well that really depends on starting resources to be fair curse, its a very heavy price increase atm but i assure you that its really needed considering how powerful it is. After doing some tests on bombers they seem fine to me, sadly i based my opinion on how effective they are on people who play GCO, they still need more tests but currently about 15 TB's easily take out a SD and about 5 missile boats do the same job.


Last edited by Darth Malice on Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Balancing the shiplist pricing (updated imperial pricing)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:35 pm 
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Republic

Fighters

Z-95 headhunter - 80
Long Probe Y-wing - 130
Y-wing - 170
X-wing - 170
A-wing - 180
B-wing - 300
T-wing - 60
R-4 starchaser - 130
k-wing - 1000?

Corvettes
Skipray Blastboat - 180
Lambda Shuttle - 120
Escort Shuttle - 250
DX-9 Transport - 480
Assault shuttle - 400
System Patrol Craft -  140
Corellian Gunship - 200
Corellian Heavy Gunship - 440
Corellian Corvette - 160
Corellian Heavy Corvette - 400
Broadside Frigate - 300
Guardian Light Cruiser - 180
PB-950 Patrol Craft - 140 - none of these are these are tested as of yet
Marauder Corvette - 300
Galofree Transport - 800
Action VI Transport - 2000

Frigate

Dreadnought - 800
Nebulon Frigate - 350
CC-9600 Frigate - 500
MC-40b - 1000
Bulk Cruiser - 500
Assault Frigate - 1100
CC-7700 Frigate - 1400?

Destroyers

MC-80- Miria - 3200
MC-80 Liberty - 3400
Independence Cruiser - 10,000
Endurance Fleet Carrier
Republic Star Destroyer
Bothan Assault Cruiser
Dauntless Cruiser
MC-90 Heavy Cruiser Defiance
Rejuvenator Star Destroyer

Supers

Strident Star Defender
Bulwark Battle Cruiser

again none of these are tested however this is the basic i will be using, after i finish testing corvettes then i will test out the prices, i will most likely have some results in about 6 hrs, after that i shall start taking into account for hyperdrive, troops etc.


Last edited by Darth Malice on Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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