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 Post subject: weapons/balance-issue questions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:38 pm 
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I have been digging around in the .big files (quite a delight :D) and have run into a few interesting things  Here are a couple questions.

1.  I noticed that the ships (I only have closely looked at the Imp 1,2 and a few others) don't have even close to the actual number of weapons as they were actually equipped with. The Imp 1 for example while stated as having 60 heavy turbolaser cannons in addition to its primary mounts.  However the in game ship has maybe 40 weapons emplacements total!

2. This pertains to the above question.  Is the smaller number of weapons a engine restriction or due to balancing issues?  Or is there a ratio of stated weapons/in game weapons OR am I just missing 50 odd weaps in the coding somewhere :P?

3. I have discovered the reason for the ISD1's prowess for disabling ships in its 2 dual heavy ion cannons....now here's the question.  The ISD1 and ISD2 have roughly the same number of weapon mounts...however the ISD2's are of considerably lighter calliber.  Isn't this a little counter intuitive?  After all the ISD2 supposedly boasted a tremendous jump in killing power (which imo it doesn't have currently) and was far more formidable than its predecessor.  (I say this due to the ISD2's reputation as an opponent to be feared all the way to the Vong wars). 

4. Now as far as the coding goes... I've been looking at both the ion cannon and turbo's....  could you be so gracious as to explain some of the values and what the variables to me?  Taking the turbolaser 12d as an example we have
Code:
StartWeaponConfig(NewWeaponType,"AnimatedTurret","Bullet","TurboLaser_10D","Normal",15000,27000,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,20,0,0,1,1,20,20,1,"Normal",0,0,0)

AddWeaponResult(NewWeaponType,"Hit","DamageHealth","Target",15000,30000,"")

setPenetration(NewWeaponType,0,1,
{TurretArmour=0.1,})

setAccuracy(NewWeaponType,0,
{SuperCapital=0.9999,},
{Hero_Large=0.01,},
{Cruiser=0.9999,},
{Destroyer=0.9999,},
{BigCapitalShip=0.9999,},
{Heavy_Frigate=0.9999,},
{Frigate=0.9,},
{SmallCapitalShip=0.9,},
{Heavy_Corvette=0.5,},
{Utility=0.5,},
{Mothership=0.9999,},
{Chimera=0.9999,},
{Heavy_Utility=0.9999,},
{Planet=1,},
{SubSystem=0.1,},
{Emplacement=0.1,})

setAngles(NewWeaponType,5,-100,100,-5,90)

setMiscValues(NewWeaponType,4,3.5)



now as far as I've seen the only values that really change would be these highlighted below StartWeaponConfig(NewWeaponType,"AnimatedTurret","Bullet","TurboLaser_10D","Normal",15000,27000,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,20,0,0,1,1,20,20,1,"Normal",0,0,0)

AddWeaponResult(NewWeaponType,"Hit","DamageHealth","Target",15000,30000,"")

setPenetration(NewWeaponType,0,1,
{TurretArmour=0.1,})

setAccuracy(NewWeaponType,0,
{SuperCapital=0.9999,},
{Hero_Large=0.01,},
{Cruiser=0.9999,},
{Destroyer=0.9999,},
{BigCapitalShip=0.9999,},
{Heavy_Frigate=0.9999,},
{Frigate=0.9,},
{SmallCapitalShip=0.9,},
{Heavy_Corvette=0.5,},
{Utility=0.5,},
{Mothership=0.9999,},
{Chimera=0.9999,},
{Heavy_Utility=0.9999,},
{Planet=1,},
{SubSystem=0.1,},
{Emplacement=0.1,})

setAngles(NewWeaponType,5,-100,100,-5,90)

setMiscValues(NewWeaponType,4,3.5)

  Having said that which of the above deals with range, health damage, emp damage etc?  I assume it isn't the damage normal as both values are zero for the ion cannons.  A breakdown of the values above would be Awesome :)

Well I think that's all I can come up with atm.  Thnx.


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 Post subject: Re: weapons/balance-issue questions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:00 am
Posts: 240
on weapon counts, it's basically a limitation on how many hardpoints I am putting in(there could be more but it is incredibly time consuming), but the catch is that I am counting each weapon as a barrel on the hard point, so if you add up the number of barrels on a gun it should come out a lot higher (most of the guns are 4 barrel, in the case of the ISDII it is 4 barrels and 8 barrels) this effectively increases the fire rate by the number of barrels (the weapon files automatically divide the fire rate amoungst the barrels). I realise that the number of emplacements should be higher, but this was a simple way to solve the issue without doing insane amounts of rigging. on some of the smaller ships this overpowers them, but they are so weak anyway that it isn't noticeable.

for ion cannons I am looking at a complete redo of the values to fix the infinite disable bug

the ISD I vs ISD II this is something that I've always played with. My opinion of the ISD I is that it is a true destroyer and multimission craft and intended to operate independently and act in a fleet command role with smaller combatants, it has heavier single guns (very large double TLs and Ions etc) this gives it a larger variety of weapons and a higher acceleration and higher instant hitting power

the ISD II is more of a fleet destroyer role and therefore is more focused on operating in a screening role for larger battlegroups or vessels, it has superior overall firepower because its secondaries are larger, and it has many more heavy calibre guns (not super heavy like the ISD I) It still operates independantly when necessary, but in most cases it has support vessels to handle those roles. the heavier secondary ion cannon complement is more useful in fleet engagments where it is expected to stay in the fight for a long time rather than simply attempting to blow something up instantly.

it's an opinion of why the ISD II is not radically better than the ISD I (In fact, with the exception of the first ISD II they should have almost the same reactor output up to the remnant refits so more guns means they have to be less powerful guns)

start weapon: projectile speed, range, refire rate, angular speed up/down and angular speed left/right

addweapon result, the last two values are the min and max damage (assuming a linear random distribution)

set msic: recoil time, recoil distance


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 Post subject: Re: weapons/balance-issue questions
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:47 pm
Posts: 2
awesome ... I appreciate the info on the code there.  Very enlightening with the exception of the ion cannons... I still don't understand where emp damage is covered espcially as it seems as if some conventional weapons also inflict slight emp damage on occasion. 

Also I take it by division of fire rate that (hypothetical example) a quad mount with a rof of 4 would have a 1 sec rof for each barrel (or 1 sec rof for mount....same difference either way I guess)??


As to the imp1 vs 2 issue... yeah pretty much its just a toss up either way and depends on how you really want to look at it.  I understand your point and I unfortunately can't get my hands on anything better than online resources (wookipedia being my primary).  My personal (key word personal) take on the issue was that the Imp 2 was designed with a considerable jump in lethality in mind.  The reason I think this is a look in to the mind of Lira Wessex who designed it and its forerunner http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lira_Wessex A brilliant engineer, if ever there was a severe case of more/bigger is better it would be her.  According to the wookipedia http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_II-class_Star_Destroyer the imp 2 was designed with a heavily reinforced hull, stronger shields and greater firepower than the original.  So thats my "spin" on the sketchy details I have. :)  I may just tweak things a little on my own to suit my tastes  8)  thanks


Last edited by berbinator on Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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