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 Post subject: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:48 am 
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Hello fellow SWR fans!

Recently I've started (re)playing swr multiplayer with a friend. I was only able to do so thanks to the help this community provided, and am forever grateful.

One thing that bothered me 10 years ago, and is now bothering me again, is the order in which ships are listed in the UI. From my experience the 'oldest' ships are always at the top on the list.

Example: after building 3 lancer frigates I order the Imperial Production to get started on two Victory II destroyers. Upon completion, all ships are combined into a fleet. As far as I know there is no way to put the Victory II's at the very top of the fleet list.

Although this makes little difference in practical matters, I would prefer to see the bigger badder ships at the top :-).

Has anybody else experienced this, or is there a common workaround that I'm not aware of?


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 Post subject: Re: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:04 am 
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AceCommander wrote:
Example: after building 3 lancer frigates I order the Imperial Production to get started on two Victory II destroyers. Upon completion, all ships are combined into a fleet. As far as I know there is no way to put the Victory II's at the very top of the fleet list.

Although this makes little difference in practical matters, I would prefer to see the bigger badder ships at the top :-).

It's been awhile since I played or tried to manipulate the ship listings in a fleet, but ... see if this might work:
Create a NEW Fleet
Put the ships you want listed first, in this NEW Fleet first.
Supposedly Fleets you "create" (not the computer) will be listed in the order you filled it.

Just my two bits worth :?

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 Post subject: Re: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:25 am 
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DarthTex wrote:
AceCommander wrote:
Example: after building 3 lancer frigates I order the Imperial Production to get started on two Victory II destroyers. Upon completion, all ships are combined into a fleet. As far as I know there is no way to put the Victory II's at the very top of the fleet list.

Although this makes little difference in practical matters, I would prefer to see the bigger badder ships at the top :-).

It's been awhile since I played or tried to manipulate the ship listings in a fleet, but ... see if this might work:
Create a NEW Fleet
Put the ships you want listed first, in this NEW Fleet first.
Supposedly Fleets you "create" (not the computer) will be listed in the order you filled it.

Just my two bits worth :?
H

Hello DarthTex and thank you for the reply. I've tested what you suggested but unfortunately, it did not work. Any other ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:38 am 
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If I recall, it is based on creation date. Ships are listed in the order in which they were built. I don't know how ships you begin the game with are ordered, except that they are ordered before later ships.

This means that as you upgrade ship types from development, new types are invariably listed last, because you are building those after you built the older ships.

The solution is to lose your old ships. Fight some more battles, and stop winning. :roll:

Or just lump all your older ships into one fleet as new hulls come into commission. Then send your 'old' fleet into battle against a hardened target (like Corescant). They will take lots of damage while hopefully taking out some enemy ships. Then don't keep any surviving, damaged, old ships. They always take forever to repair and are inferior; use the resources for better ships. Like a real war: you mothball or scrap older vessels as technology changes because it costs too much to retrofit everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:56 pm 
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I either crap and build new ones, even if it's a straight replacement (done that with Lancers, by the time I can build ISD IIs creating a Lancer is pretty quick).

An alternative, though more clunky: create a RebEd file where the costs are 1/1. Then when you want to reorganize, build all the "weaker" ships you want at the bottom of the lists again. So if you have your fill of legitimately created SSDs, ISD IIs, VSD IIs or whatever and, say, 10 Lancer Frigates, go build 10 new Lancer Frigates at 1/1. Flip the time to a couple days or whatever, rename them to what you called your "old" Lancers and then scrap those. Save the game, exit, and reload the default RebEd settings so the costs go back to normal (or whatever modifications you play with).

It's a pain but the quickest way to do it. Otherwise like I said before, just build one-for-one replacements and scrap the old ones so you end up with the same amount of ships after you're done researching and building the bigger, badder starships.


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 Post subject: Re: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Master_Xan wrote:
If I recall, it is based on creation date.

This. Also, when you're scrolling through the ships in your task forces in the battle window (or even your opponent's ships) it will cycle in order of build date. I'm fairly certain that when left to their own devices your ships/fighters will target the oldest, biggest ship, followed by newer ships of the same type before targeting the next strongest ship type and going oldest to newest again, etc.

I might be wrong and they go newest to oldest. I haven't figured that out yet, but will look more closely in my next battle. Speaking of, I'll have a new update later today on my self-appointed challenge.[/shameless self-promotion]

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 Post subject: Re: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:52 am 
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Ships and fighters targeting fighters always go after bombers first, though I don't know the order (i.e. if they go for Y-Wings or B-Wings first), and there doesn't seem to be a way to directly change that. I'm not sure about your ships' default targeting preferences when going after capital ships, but the AI always seems to attack whatever ship is biggest. Not sure if that is based on power, cost, or AI value (which is only editable in SWR:Editor, not RebEd). Or perhaps something else, or a combination. But the Rebels always go after my SSDs first, which are certainly not the oldest and not always the newest, but definitely the baddest.

It means my largest ships have much shorter lifespans than medium-grade capital ships, despite extra armor and shields.

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 Post subject: Re: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:47 am 
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I actually paid attention during last nights big battle. Priority number 1 for capital ship targets is ships carrying Admirals, Generals and Commanders, after that we go to the newest/strongest ship type in the fleet. For argument's sake we'll say Bulwarks. All Bulwarks carrying personnel have priority, oldest to newest. From there we go to Bulwarks without personnel, oldest to newest. When all Bulwarks are destroyed we drop to Dauntlesses and repeat: Personnel old to new, non-personnel old to new. 'Oldest to newest' seems to be determined by order placement date: with no personnel Bulwark Battlecruiser 1 will be targeted before Bulwark Battlecruiser 2.

Based on the way my cap ships were taken out last night I think, though I can't confirm this without further research, ship type priorities are based on research values. I plan to eliminate research values (make all ships available at the start of the game) and try again. I think this will help establish how priorities are assigned. Maybe a fleet of 1 Bulwark, 1 Dauntless, 1 Liberator, 1 Assault Frigate, 1 9600, 1 7700, 1 Mon Cal and 1 Neb-B. I would want to keep it to 8 ships so I can easily assign one ship to each task force.

Let me know if that helps, and I'll do some more research for the hell of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:06 pm 
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That makes sense. I'm also curious about how individual ships auto-target, such as when their target is out of range and they are moving to get into range. Do ships target the closest enemy vessel, or are there other criteria?

Not that any of this was important, really. Just curious.

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 Post subject: Re: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:27 pm 
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That I can't tell you. I don't often follow ships. I tend to focus on my target so I know when to reassign targets.

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 Post subject: Re: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:38 am 
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Master_Xan wrote:
That makes sense. I'm also curious about how individual ships auto-target, such as when their target is out of range and they are moving to get into range. Do ships target the closest enemy vessel, or are there other criteria?

Not that any of this was important, really. Just curious.

I believe capital ships will shoot at targets of opportunity on their way to the main target. If there are more than one, then I believe it's the most powerful of whatever is in range.

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 Post subject: Re: Fleets - the order of capital ships in UI
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:33 am 
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That would be my assumption, but I've never really paid attention to confirm or deny.

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(CINCBEAK) BEAK Imperium
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