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 Post subject: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:04 pm 
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So I've been making progress looking for Rebellion's source code, and I'm wondering if anyone can lend me a hand. Specifically, does anyone have a paid subscription to LinkedIn? I have found several members of the original Coolhand team, but can't find contact info for them outside of LinkedIn.

Also, does anyone know where Coolhand was centered out of? As in, what city?

If anyone can find anything, let me know. So far, I've found the following:
LinkedIn for Doug Mogica, Scott Witte, and Hugh Sider
An old email for Hugh (sent one, waiting a response... if he even still checks it)
Several possible addresses for Doug

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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Its very interesting that you've made progress in that field.
Unfortunately I don't know where Coolhand was based, and i doubt a quick google search will provide the answer, as I assume you've tried that. :P
Have you tried cross referencing the residential addresses of the people you've found so far to see if there are any commonalities? some may still reside where they used to work.


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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:21 pm 
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The source code is going to be owned by company they did the work for, in this case, Coolhand contracted by LucasArts. LEC will own the code, and despite anything communications these people may be willing to engage in, and possibly share insight into the internal operations, it would be highly doubtful any of them retain a personal copy of the code, and if they did, would be in breach of contract, and violating copyright of Coolhand, LEC by doing so. In all likelyhood, the only copy of the source code was hosted on a server at LucasArts, which bit the dust many years ago, and the old backups were probably tossed out as garbage by an IT intern. I'd be suprised if LEC even has a copy of the source code available for themselves. Good luck though, love to see you prove me wrong. :wink:

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Don't have Star Wars Rebellion? Download the CD-ROM here. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:26 pm 
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geir389 wrote:
Its very interesting that you've made progress in that field.
Unfortunately I don't know where Coolhand was based, and i doubt a quick google search will provide the answer, as I assume you've tried that. :P
Have you tried cross referencing the residential addresses of the people you've found so far to see if there are any commonalities? some may still reside where they used to work.

I did. Of the ones I could find, they seemed to share California in common, but different cities. Unless I can find more employees to correlate data with, that's a dead end.

budious wrote:
The source code is going to be owned by company they did the work for, in this case, Coolhand contracted by LucasArts. LEC will own the code, and despite anything communications these people may be willing to engage in, and possibly share insight into the internal operations, it would be highly doubtful any of them retain a personal copy of the code, and if they did, would be in breach of contract, and violating copyright of Coolhand, LEC by doing so. In all likelyhood, the only copy of the source code was hosted on a server at LucasArts, which bit the dust many years ago, and the old backups were probably tossed out as garbage by an IT intern. I'd be suprised if LEC even has a copy of the source code available for themselves. Good luck though, love to see you prove me wrong. :wink:

How did Raven manage to give out the code for Outcast and Academy? Also, while it may be very unlikely, there is always the chance that somebody has a copy, or that one of the original developers still has a contact or two who can get the code.

My experience with big companies is that they don't throw away anything. The more paranoid about their property, the less they delete. LucasArts was big enough when the game came out, it surely was put into their backup policy, along with everything else. If LA was in charge of the code, my guess is there is still a copy on their servers, and it is backed up. Of course, there are not likely to be many employees who still know it exists. Especially since LA has few employees, period.

Which gives me a new idea. Maybe I can leverage some contacts and find somebody in Disney, or one of the few LA employees left. I may not know enough people to go that route, but I can try. I'd bet I can get to someone in Pixar... but probably only an animator... but maybe through them to Disney... hm... Of course, this may take a large chunk of time... I shall ponder this.

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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm 
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I figure in the case of Outcast and Academy, since both games were Quake III engine based, very few specific modifications were made to support the features added by Raven to underlying engine code licensed from ID. Since ID had already open sourced QuakeIII many years ago, there were very few direct economic costs in terms of programming hours spent on the engine modification, so contributing those to the community would ensure free promotion and active use of the games for years to come. Keep in mind, open sourcing the engine does not include the game art (models, map, characters).

Rebellion, on the other hand, is a pure in-house development. Now, while ownership may reside with the developer, Coolhand, it's certainly contractually subjective, and they maintain a copy for patching and maintenance purposes. They may, read most definitely, still need the approval of LEC (~Disney) to release any such code. In this case, some bean counter is only going to look at the programming hours involved and decide it's not in their interest to give anything away for free.

I'm still waiting for Microsoft to make Windows 95 and Windows NT 4.0 open source too. :wink:

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Don't have Star Wars Rebellion? Download the CD-ROM here. :lol:

My old Rebellion site (very web 1.0) - Bud's Korner and Rebellion Strategy


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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:25 am 
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budious wrote:
I'm still waiting for Microsoft to make Windows 95 and Windows NT 4.0 open source too. :wink:

They won't ever make Windows open source. Too much of the old OS is still buried in the newer versions; it would be a huge security leak. I think even Win 8's kernel contains portions from way back.

For the curious, Windows 7 is based on Windows Vista. Vista was born from XP, which was based off 2000, and the 2000 kernel came from NT. Which means portions of Windows 7 were actually built way back when NT was made. And what was NT based on? That is a redesigned kernel, but still shares code (and coding principles) with 95 and 98. WinME has no descendants, but was heavily based on 98, meaning anyone with ME's source could still find security holes. Even DOS is a no-go, as MSDOS functionality is still built into every Windows release.

Windows 3.1 is the only OS they could release safely, but I'm not even 100% sure of that...

budious wrote:
I figure in the case of Outcast and Academy, since both games were Quake III engine based, very few specific modifications were made to support the features added by Raven to underlying engine code licensed from ID...

They may, read most definitely, still need the approval of LEC (~Disney) to release any such code. In this case, some bean counter is only going to look at the programming hours involved and decide it's not in their interest to give anything away for free.

Very good points about Raven. I've always figured if we got the code, it would be slightly under the table. We would need to use Jedi mind tricks to convince the bean counter that yes, much money was spent, therefore you shouldn't let it go to waste now. AKA we need a huge lucky break. But sometimes, stuff like that happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:16 pm 
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http://www.wysk.com/index/california/mo ... trademarks

Pretty sure this is them. So they were based in California.


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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:05 pm 
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That says it was cancelled, but not what "it" was. Did they maintain the rights to Rebellion, and not LA? And if so, are those rights now gone?

Seems so unlikely. Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:57 pm 
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Well because it's a licensed product, the rights for the game return to lucas arts, and as the brand has been purchased by Disney, the rights now belong to Disney. However the rights to the games code belong to the developers that created it. However i doubt any of them have the source code. and the company that owned the code is shut down. If the trademark i found is true, that means they shut down at latest 2003 when the trademark for "coolhand Interactive" was given up. Thats could be a problem, cause they may have simply erased there harddrives and sold there computers.
The only hope would be if they gave the computers they worked with to the respective users at the office when they closed, and one of them still has one and a copy of the source code and developer notes on the hard drive. :/


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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:41 am 
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Xan, you could also try other platforms:

Former Coolhand CEO
https://mobile.twitter.com/DougMogica
https://www.facebook.com/dougmogica?ref=ts&fref=ts
http://www.meetup.com/appMobi-Silicon-V ... /11314126/


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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:20 pm 
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Lord_La_forge wrote:


Solid find! I'm not sure why I didn't notice this back when you posted it (when did the server go down again?), but I've sent FB and Twitter messages. Awaiting response...

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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:19 am 
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Have you tried contacting somebody at Disney? Maybe somebody in their software division, or whomever digs through all the "stuff" from the companies they acquired? Worse case scenario, contact Technical Support for whatever Star Wars game still supported, and ask them whom you might be able to contact about Rebellion.

Good Luck! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:50 pm 
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Did anyone manage to contact either Disney or some former Coolhand employees about the game?


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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:10 pm 
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Naah bro. Unfortunately and fortunately, they re released the game. That means it's now licensed and former Coolhand employees could come under fire for providing sorce code for the game. On the plus, side we know Disney does have access to the game and possibly its code.


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 Post subject: Re: Source Code (attempt # 357)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:46 am 
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I actually did track down two Coolhand employees, but the means of communication I obtained were old. By old, I mean still technically active, but the guys were no longer checking them. At least, they never responded to me- totally possible they saw my messages and ignored them or never got around to answering. I even created a Twitter account, which I said I'd never do, just to try and reach one.

But yeah, geir389 is right. Disney has shown they have the rights, and after releasing digital versions, they are unlikely to give out the code. Particularly since they aren't known for giving out code for other games. And they didn't do any upgrades to the game, so we don't even know they have the original source code.

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